How to Converse with a SAHM

Confession: I have no idea how to converse with that misunderstood species, Stay at Home Moms. 

This is my problem, I know. I dearly WANT to converse with them. I just don't know how.

My lame excuse for my pathetic lack of social skills is that I actually don't really KNOW any Stay At Home Moms.  You probably don't believe me, but there's NONE in my entire extended family (except my mother-in-law, and I have no idea how to talk to her since she doesn't speak much English), and none among my social circle. 

Also, it is difficult for me to relate since I plan to continue to work full-time after the baby arrives.  After 12 weeks of adoptive leave, it's back to the office and trying to advance my career.

This plan is my husband's and my choice, and what we believe (at this point in time... subject to change) works best for us and our baby given our situation and identities.  My career is a critical part of my identity, just like it is for most men, and I think I would be rudderless without it.  And like I mentioned earlier, I have had the good fortune of lots of female role models in my life, including my own Mom, who were great mothers but also had meaningful careers.

But let me be clear: I don't think there is anything wrong with being a SAHM.  It is absolutely the right choice for a lot of families, just as working outside the home is the right choice for many moms in other families.  Each family should be able to decide what works best for its situation without others passing judgment.

Anyway, back to the main point.  Recently, T and I recently met a great couple who are also adopting internationally.  They already have an adorable 3-year-old son. We all went out to dinner a few weeks ago. 

It was so easy to talk to the Mr. of the couple -- he's outgoing and we work in the same industry.  We talked about consolidation in the industry and the pitfalls of  constant business travel.  We voted Detroit as the worst airport in the USA, and London Heathrow as the worst in the world.  No problems with conversation there.

But I felt so inept with the more introverted Mrs., a SAHM.  I just didn't know how to break the ice or find common ground.

Approaches I considered but rejected:

1) "So, what do you do?"  -- duh, I knew that. She's a stay at home mom.  She runs after her ADORABLE son all day long.   And that question might have annoyed / offended her.

2) "What did you do before when you stopped working?"  -- if I asked that, she might have thought I didn't respect her for being a SAHM. She might have assumed I was devaluing her choice or judging her.  But since I didn't ask, I might not have found out something we have in common.

3) "How do you like being a Stay At Home Mom?" -- sounds condescending, although I really was curious about how she feels having transitioned from the working world to the realm of full-time motherhood.

4) "What do you do when you're not running after your son?" -- is this a stupid question? Because I was pretty sure that mothering her son takes up nearly all her time (her husband travels 75% on business).

Ack... I had no idea.  I am such a prick, I know.

Stymied, we chatted about her kid and adoption 100%; we did not talk about her at all.  But I am sure that was somewhat awkward, if not downright offensive, as well.

So... what should I have done? And if you want to flame me, I have my fireproof suit on.

Comments

[Jenn]

Well, not there quite yet, but I haven't worked in over a year. I hate working. HATE it. I think question one is out. Question two, I personally wouldn't mind, but can see how some people would be offended. Question three I think is perfectly acceptable. Or maybe word it like, what was the hardest part about transitioning from working to staying at home? Question four I'd stay away from. I hate that now (maybe because I really don't do anything, and love every minute of it).

[Julianna]

I am running into that a lot lately only I am at the other end and I have no children to explain my lack of a vocation.

When we are out socially, "what do you do?" is usually the first question people ask and when I say that I am currently not working, they assume that I am a SAHM which opens up a whole new can of worms when they ask how many children we have....."none" I say as if it doesn't bother me.

My girlfriend is a power house realtor and is so very busy, she is very successful. We still have plenty to talk about and I make it a point to ask HER about her day and her schedules. I will be having lunch with about 10 women today (my girlfriend is the only one who I know) so I am certain to hear "what do you do?" and I just abhor saying "housewife" or "nothing" or "I'm currently not working" because then I feel I have to answer more questions. Especially about how many children we have and then when people find out that we have none, they wonder what in the hell I do with my days and then I feel I need to make it sound like I am busy.

I LOVE not working. I LOVE waking up late and sipping on my cappucino and piddling with crafts all day and yard work - it just sounds so simple and I do feel like I should be doing more - my house SHOULD be spotless but it is not. I sense that people think that I must be lazy or priviledged and that gives the wrong impression.

I really have nothing to contribute to a conversation about occupations anymore but I still make it a point to be interested in their lives.

I think that your quiet SAHM could have also made an effort in the conversation but I do understand that some people aren't outgoing. She probably does feel inadequate intellectually compared to you.

You are a power house, brilliant woman who has goals and achieves them. Your work is a huge part of your life.

Hell, my sisters are power house professionals and they wonder what in the fuck I do all day - my OWN sisters. They cannot imagine that I adore not working.

I have heard Europeans say that Americans are so rude because we begin most conversations with "what do you do" - it's like we want to put people in a class immediately upon meeting them.

As long as the answer is impressive, it opens the door for wonderful revelations and conversation. When the answer is boring, it lends to awkwardness.

Okay. I think I maxed out my word limit. I need to get dressed and at least look decent to meet these 10 new women. We'll see how it goes. I wish I knew how to answer that question "what do you do?" but it doesn't offend me when someone asks - it is our culture.

This wasn't helpful at all, was it?

You're awesome. How's that.

[Nancy]

Those all sound fine to me, even #1, unless you don't want to hear the answer!

I'm a stay-at-home human (no kids yet, currently on the adoption bureaucracy hamster wheel) who works only one day a week with occasional short binge contracts, and I love to talk about it.

[Jill]

I am one of those SAHMs - some days I wear it like a badge of honor - others I wear it like dunce cap. Not much different then when I was at work. I am sure asked with sincerity any of your questions would have been fielded well.

[Sassy]

Question #5 - So what have you guys been up to lately? Most people have an answer to that one - weddings, birthdays, holidays, or just seeing a movie or something.

[DD]

Maybe you can ask her what parks she likes taking her son to or does she participate in a mother/tot group. These types of questions give her a chance to not only express her opinion, but she may be willing to offer up additional suggested activities for you and your child.

[Away2me]

As a self-employed-work-from-home-haven't-gone-back-to-work-myself-mom, I can tell you... I'm glad I don't have to work and leave my little one in day care. But that's just me. This Friday I have my first official shoot since he was born and I'm looking forward to the job...but he is going with me, so I feel okay about it. I'm sure you'll figure out what works best for you. As far as the conversation with SAHM... don't sweat it, let her ask some questions and go with the flow!Once you have your child at home the conversations will be much easier for you.

[Stephanie]

I'm so with you on this one. I too will be the one to work when the baby comes. Like you, sometimes I think it's great, and sometimes I wish I could be the one to stay home. Many of my cousins are SAHMS and I've known and loved them all my life, but find that many times it's hard to talk to them. Their whole world is their kids and what do I know about that?? I think when the baby comes you will have more to talk about.

[leigh]

I don't find any of the questions offensive or awful. But maybe she would like to talk about something other than her "working life" and topics that are away from childrearing, homekeeping, etc. I would have liked to ask her if she thinks his extensive travel schedule makes it more difficult for her or not, or what her least favorite airport is (I vote for Miami).

[Dawn]

I am getting ready to become a SAHM. I guess this is what I have to look forward to. Working women stunted in conversation with me. I can't speak to the questions, as I don't know how I would react. I am a teacher and am currently working on my MA and then will be persuing my M.ED or an EDD. I plan to go back to work. I am not sure how I will function not working. I am thinking that I will be looking forward to returning to work. Who knows. But just remember SAHM are women too. There is always women things to talk about--books, shopping, cooking, etc.

[Denise]

Well, I have been a stay-at-home mom for--what's today? Thursday?--for 4 days straight now, so I am definitely the expert person to answer your question.

I think all the suggestions above are fine; I think it's OK to ask someone what she or he did before they quit; and I think general topics of conversation like what you've been reading, local political issues, movies, cultural topics, etc. would all be welcome. When your baby comes you'll be able to chat for hours about teething, playgroups, etc. even if you work, but even then it's nice to mix it up with some non-kid topics.

[Judi]

Have you ever thought maybe you don't have anything in common with her period. I don't know just a thought. I'm a SAHM for 4 years and there are a lot of other SAHMs I have nothing in common with. Sometimes when we meet profesional women we feel a little intimated, just speaking for myself, but otherwise I have absolutely no regrets. I hated working. What is so bad about the Detroit airport? I flew threw there twice with my 5 year old and it seemed nice. My only guess is lots of delays?

[Donna]

I've said a couple of really stupid things to a close friend with two kids, along the lines of "what do you do all day", and she just looked at me like, oh honey, you have no freaking idea. I think it's a two-way street, she should have taken some initiative to put herself into the conversation, and if she didn't have anything to contribute it's not up to you to make sure she's comfortable. That made me sound like a total bitch, didn't it?

[Erin]

When I run into SAHM, all that I can do is stand there and drool in shameful jealousy. I really, really hate my job.

Sorry, was that outloud?

[gawdessness]

Wow! Being an at home parent is a big job isn't it, it's so different from what I do, I'd love to hear about it.

Note must be said with absolute sincerity.

Might work:).

[Amyesq]

I am so with you. All of my neighbors are SAHMs, as is my best friend. So I have lots of experience, but it took awhile to navigate the unfamiliar waters. I like the "What have you guys been up to lately" or the "Do you have any fun plans for the summer." It is tough, though, in situations where all of a sudden everyone is talking about their children and I feel I have nothing to contribute. Occasionally, someone with throw in a "See what you have to look forward to?" in my direction and I usually just listen in order to pick up some tips.

[Figlet]

I'm still not sure if I'm going to become a SAHM or not, but I'm going to add my own two cents. I'm a full time WAHM/WOHM (I do both). And yet I don't talk about my work much outside of, well, work. I rarely mention it on my blog, and it's not how I define myself entirely. I talk about my kid a lot. I talk about her at work. I talk about her when we're out with friends. I'd rather talk about my kid than my work any day. And it's not that my job doesn't have meaning, but I guess to me, it's so compartmentalized. I work, I parent, I read, I cook, we travel, I watch HGTV. As I see it, work only defines about 20% of me though it consumes a proportionately larger number of hours than my other interests. I think you can find other common ground with SAHMs. I have friends of both stripes. Could be that the woman who is also adopting, well, you just don't have anything other than adoption in common?

[Pamplemousse]

Well, I was brought up to be able to have a conversation with anyone from anywhere about anything. I call it being polite and sociable.

I am totally with you on the working thing, 100%. Though it is a pretty moot point for me at the moment as there are no children in the equation.

[chris]

Well, okay. I didn't read the other comments because I just want to be honest here. I found this post a little insulting. Why wouldn't you treat her the same way you'd treat anyone else? Does being a SAHM mean she doesn't have any political opinions, interests, hobbies, whatever? Clearly she's not the most outgoing person, so maybe conversation with her would be boring even if she was the CEO of a large company.

I'll be honest. As a SAHM I really hate it when other SAHMs say horrible things about moms who work outside the home. It makes me uncomfortable because it seems really anti-female and honestly, I don't think it's any of my business. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard SAHMs say about working moms, even the so-called modern, hip moms with advanced degrees who should know better. I could have easily switched the topic of this post around and have had it been about a SAHM writing about a working mom. Which is silly. Either way.

Anyway, not trying to be insulting, just wanted to give you the other side.

Usually love your blog, by the way.

[kary]

Are you from here? What neat things is your son doing right now? Is he going to preschool in the fall? Is it hard for you when your husband goes out of town? What did you do for work before your adorable son came along?

I think being stay-at-home vs. working is such a personal decision. Personally, I could never be a full-time stay-at-home mom. I need the variety of adult time. I need to keep a foot in the corporate world. I, too, find it hard to find things to talk about sometimes with ANYONE who doesn't have much in common with me (it doesn't necessarily have to be a SAHM--it could be ANYONE). But, I give it the ol' college try which is what you did. I don't think the divide has to be as big as we make it sometimes. Like me--I work part-time, so what does that make me? I can't fully relate to either side, but I can try to relate a little bit of my situation to both sides.
Love your blog, btw.

[Anna H.]

I'm not a SAHM, but I do have a job (I'm loathe to call it a 'career') that is as boring as they come, so I'm often in a similar position as the SAHM you had dinner with; there's simply not much to talk about when it comes to my work.

That said, I have friends from all walks of life -- academics, writers, shopkeepers, architects, cooks, IT folks, SAHMs, SAHDs -- some with really fascinating jobs, some with not so fascinating jobs. And the thing is, there's so much that we have to talk about *apart* from their chosen (or fallen-into) professions.

To be honest, there's a touch of condescension in your post that saddens me. I know what it's like to be the only person at a dinner party of aquaintances without an advanced degree, the only one without fascinating stories to share about my work. But there all kinds of other things I'm curious or passionate about. And if new acquaintances are open and willing to ask questions, to bring up topics of conversation that include everyone -- to show interest -- then there's much more of a chance that we'll connect.

[Truly Tested]

It's interesting...I don't think you did anything wrong but I think in your heart of hearts you do look down on her a bit for not working and that's why you're worried that your prejudice will come out in spite of whatever you might do to mask it. If you can clear away your feelings of judgment, you'll probably be freer to just converse with her, and not worry about how it's coming out. I would start with the common ground stuff -- the adoption -- and then gently ask if she's always been a full-time mom or if she worked before -- and with genuine interest, ask her how it is to parent full-time with a traveling spouse. Just some thoughts.

[Lucy]

Your post made it seem like you knew for a fact that this woman's mind was mush - which may or may not have been the case. Just to put it in perspective, I have one advanced degree, will graduate with a second advanced degree in December, and then I'll be giving birth and staying at home with the kiddo. I believe I'll be able to converse about a variety of things with the Working Folk, no problem (education and past work history aside). Life doesn't revolve around Career for everyone - some of us have a lot of interests *outside* of our work/academic lives. Sure, after the baby comes my life will change focus and it'll revolve around junior for a while. But that doesn't mean that I can't talk about what I read, or what I like to do for fun, or what makes me tick, or what my passions are.

[Linda]

She might, also, have felt that she had little to contribute to the conversation if she's been a SAHM for a very long time. Gosh it's a hard one, to know what to say to her, and for her to know what to say to you. She probably knows nothing about your world and you can't imagine hers. I bet you were both uncomfortable. But she should have made a bit of effort to be conversational. I know it's not in everyone to do that, but maybe she's just not that aware?

[marla]

Identity is a tricky thing-- one day you can be "this person" and you get laid off, so not your not "that person" anymore. Same with SAHM, your child is young and you are "this person" and as they grow and change, you become "that person". You'll see... life is never static.